Starting Rule

You have a good understanding of the rules to the situation you have asked about. You need to add a couple considerations: First add rule 14 - Avoiding contact because even the right of way (ROW) boat can be penalized if contact causes damage or injury which is strictly interpreted. Second; after the starting signal, the leeward boat can luff only to her proper course. Normally that is to close-hulled but could be as high as head to wind if, for example, she had to sail that high to clear the mark at the end of the start line. Also, when proper courses conflict, the leeward boat has ROW so, for example, if an A class cat starts below you and points higher (normal), then you are in trouble in your sloop rigged cat and must keep clear.

BTW, rule 16.1 is why you must "close-out" or luff a barging boat BEFORE she gets to the committee boat. If you wait, then she no longer has room to respond to your luff and must be permitted room (it is not seamanlike to hit other boats). Racers commonly think that bargers have no rights at any time and that is simply not the case. Luff while they have an escape route or you will both be wrong.

F.Y.I., Here are some good internet sites for more rules info:

WEBSITES FOR RRS INFORMATION AND REFERENCE

International Sailing Federation website: http://www.sailing.org/
Select “Rules” at the top of the page. This page starts the RRS and at the bottom of this page you can choose “Racing Rules Q&A Service” which lists different questions and answers written from around the world about racing situations causing confusion; especially handy for race officials. You can also choose “Publications” to get the ISAF Cases – authoritative explanations and interpretations of actual racing protest situations and the decisions of the protest and appeals committees.

U.S. Sailing website: http://www.ussailing.org
Select “Racing” at the top of the page and then “Racing Rules” in the menu window.

U.S. Sailing racing course website: http://www.racing.sailingcourse.com/index.html
(Most realistic training simulations of basic rules situations - video style)

UK Sailmakers interactive rules quiz website: (Also available for sale on CD) http://www.ukhalsey.com/RulesQuiz/index.asp
(Probably the best site for rules quizzes)

Selected Dick Rose rules explanation columns from Sailing World magazine
http://www.sailingworld.com/sw_experts.jsp?typeID=402&catID=595

COLREGS website: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/navrules.htm
(These rules apply when racing after sunset and before sunrise) Tybee 500 racers note!

SailNet Learning to Sail website: http://www.sailnet.com/collections/learningtosail/rules/index.htm
(Interactive place to learn the international and inland rules)

“Uncle Al’s” rules website: http://www.angelfire.com/de2/WIT/Rules_in_Pics_index.html
(Folksy manner - includes updated rules explanations and quizzes using real photos of sailboats racing)

These are the two rules that apply. Depending on the space between the boats and how fast they are moving, the windward boat may not be able to manuever at all (i.e. - moving slowly and very close, since putting the helm down will cause the stern of the boat to move towards the bow of the leeward boat).

Coming from behind and trying to luff an almost stationary boat in close quarters at the start is a good way to get yourself a bad start.

You need to keep your speed up to drive through the wind shadow of the windward boat and get your nose out into clean air. Use your momentum to luff up gradually and noisily (UP!, UP!, UP!), then bear off into the hole you just created and foot away as the gun goes off, leaving your "victim" still motionless and gasping for air.

Very informative thread, but I want to make sure I understand this:

This is only true if the leeward boat changes course to luff, right? Maybe my question needs a better description:

I'm leeward and holding a steady close hauled course that will take me right next to the committee boat.

A windward barger comes reaching in and gets his nose inside the committee boat.

Before the barger gets clear ahead, I have to bear away to avoid contact.

The barger has fouled me, correct?

Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi

How do you defend against bargers? It seems mostly, they are either ignorant or just don't care!

Inexperience can put you in a dangerous barging position - I've done it and had contact with another boat when obviously I didn't intend to. In this case, it was a lack of being able to forsee what was going to happen early enough. I was reaching in under the committee boat and had a Hobie 20 on my windward hip. I thought that I should tack out of there because a freight train of Hobie 16s were coming in with their sites on the committee boat. I was single handing and wanted to tack but couldn't because the 20 was on top of me all the way to the committee boat where they tacked off at the last second. By the time I realized what predicament I was in, I couldn't bear away without hitting someone hard so I had no choice but to pick the committee boat to hit or the Hobie 16. I opted for a glancing blow on one upset Hobie 16. I didn't forsee what was going to happen early enough. I should have hailed the 20 early enough so they would allow me me room to tack away or, if possible, jibe away earlier.

I've been in that situation so many times, and seen others having the same problem, my thinking is to avoid the committee end of the line all together.

Several years ago while trying to "race" with my young son that happened to us. Staying clear, we thought, and trying to get a decent start someone comes up from behind (light wind race) yelling "UP, UP, UP" scared the hell out of my son (who was 8) and jammed us up between two other boats and in irons. Its fun being an immobile object on a start line. Couldn't do anything for what seemed like 5 minutes. Finally started moving as the gun for the next fleet was going off. For a casual sailor/racer that decided it for us. Sold the boat and bought something that can carry more refreshments.

Moral, if you don't study the rule book front to back and learn to win at whatever the issue stay off the race course.

Works for me.

Clayton
S27
P.S. Not many will barge a 27' tank.

Yes, (assuming the committee boat is surrounded by navigable water) the barger has broken rule 11 (Same tack, overlapped).

Regards,
Eric

I had a situation (with our fresh ... damn near new ... I20 this weekend). Because I was the biggest boat in the fleet, I didn't want to get pinned under the F18's so I could be in control of my breeze and get away early. I could see the log jam coming but I was in perfect position to claim the committee boat end. Two boats were crowding in and I could see them eye balling the committee boat end on top of me. Pre-emptively I hailed "there's no room there!" (probably a couple of times). My rudders were missed by about 1/2" inch and the spin pole was over my sterns within my reach as a boat bailed out at the last possible second and tacked away just shy of the committee boat. I couldn't spare the concentration to even see who it was I was hailing.

Later I found out that it was a good friend (as most of the F18 sailors are) and his daughter was skippering for the first time. She had made a remark about how "mean" I was on the water and I felt bad...but I probably did keep them from getting past the point of no return and keeping us from hitting each other - there just wasn't much time for being nice. I did try to explain it later and that there was NOTHING personal about it. I just saw a problem coming and felt like I had to be very clear and very direct.

Protest them. Loud hails of "No Room!" well before the barger sticks his nose in will also get the attention of race committee, so you'll have plenty of witnesses.

Regards,
Eric

This is often a viable alternative. I race in a fleet where many skippers try to win the committee boat end of the line. At one point, I simply gave up on playing bumper-boats and instead tried to get clear-air starts down the line. My starts (and finishes) improved markedly.

Regards,
Eric

If you start at the end of the line, would you recommend a inmediate tack to port and once you have gained enough distance tack to starboard. By this time the fleet can be below you on a port tack and YOU have ROW. I have been debating about this, but I have not had a chance to do it yet.

Is this do-able? recomended for a low line start?

Most people just don't understand barging is against the rules, worse they don't see the danger!

I've said it before, RCs and racers in general should start using a strategically placed barging mark, such that the practice obviously won't pay.

People will stop doing it if there is a clear disadvantage.

She's right dude, you are mean... there was this time at NA's.....

Sorry man, I just couldn't stop myself. Luv ya! But, not in that special way, not there is anything wrong with that.

DOH!

I think you have your thinking backwards here. If you got a good start at the pin you already have ROW. If you tack to port you will of course lose it. If you get to windward of the fleet you will lose it. You have ROW over all of the boats behind and to windward of you. You are leeward boat. You might be clear ahead of many boats. You are on starboard tack. You can choose to point or foot at will. Everybody between you and the committee boat is under your control. All other things being equal, a square line, neither side of the course favored, no issues with current, then the pin is the place to be.

It depends how the line is set - typically they are slightly angled so the committee boat is favored. This helps the committee boat see who is over early since they're likely to be closer to them. If the start line is angled this way, you will be starting a boat length or more behind the other boats by going to the other end. This might be worth it if you can get clear air and make up the difference with speed. Sometimes you can catch competitors snoozing if the line is angled so the pin is favored. Either way, to cross everyone on port means you have had to outrun them before you tack back which is not easy.

We first decide which end of the line is favored, then we decide which side of the course we want to be on. If we know it's going to be a log-jam at the committee boat and we want the left side, a middle of the line start or even further down is sometimes fine. If we want the right side of the course, sometimes we'll put up with the log jam and accept the possibility of being behind a couple of boats at the start just so we have a clear lane to tack onto port to go right. It's a matter of deciding what your first upwind strategy is going to be and how much starting-position risk you are willing to accept to try and get where you want to be.

I thought that most Race Officers favoured a Port bias, so that boats would not bunch up at the committee boat end of the line and cause mayhem

[color]Not in California. It is almost always about 10 degrees favored to port. A couple of reasons for this are:
One. The committee boat does not want to be hit.
Two. The wind is usually a bit favored to the right side of the course, so you are squaring up that favor.

If you are sailing in CA with our typical principle race officers go to the middle of the line or lower (port), then when you get to the next breezeline (maybe 1 to 2 minutes) tack to the right side of the course.

Trick for California

Later,
Dan

I agree with Dermot. Most of the major races I've been in, the pin is slightly favored.

Committee boat owners prefer that, too.

This is a perfectly set line:

The vantage point is from the pin boat. You can just see the committee boat on the left.

With about 20 - 25 seconds to go, nobody is crowding the committee boat and there's a healthy group headed for the pin (as it turned out, the left was the way to go in this race, but we didn't know it yet).

From right to left, it's Wally Myers, Dan Borg (blue sail), Steve Leo, Pedro Colon (rearing back), unknown, Tom Korz reaching down the line, Peter Nelson, Pat Bisesi (Heineken sail) and myself (also reaching to the pin).

Wally won the pin (although it looks like Tommy got the better start - Dan is getting spat out the back):

NO RC that I know deliberately sets a committe favored line.... THEY WANT the boats down the line... If they are near sighted... they put their mark boat on the pin to sight PMS's... You should name names so they can get educacted (GB might say)!

But I also think that many RC's want a game of musical chairs on the line. IE... not enough room for the fleet to fit on the line with some boats forced into a second row start... Somehow... they feel that this is esential to a well run sailboat race... and I think they are listening to the wrong group of racers here.

My reading of the guidelines is 1 and 1/2 boats of room per boat in the start.., (sometimes they compromise for differences in fleet size in a multistart race and that is understandable). So... with that kind of room... there should not be a big issue of you getting a reasonable start... (on time and clear air) If you choose to fight it out for the best start... have at it...
Remember... the point of the start is not to define a race winner... rather... just get the race going fairly!

IMO, RC's should err on the side of a generous line length... not a sqeaky tight line.

New racers should be coached about how this game is going to play and advised to pick a spot that is not quite so contested.... (Scaring the beejesus out of them does not serve us well as per the post above)... Kudo's to the Syracuse fleet for anouncing well ahead of time a coaching clinic for new or less experienced racers coming to their big regatta..

The pin is an obstacle surrounded by navigable water. If you aren't making it after the gun and you luff up to shoot it, you'd best be sure that no one to windward of you is forced to change course to avoid you or you will be in the wrong.

Hear hear!

Winning the start, or at least getting a good start, is so important that it might well decide the winner. Having a poor start is much worse than a blown tack or another mistake later on.

Bargers are scary, especially when they try to squeeze in between you and the RC boat while you have lots of boats to your leeward with nowhere to go. You can't give room and just have to hope the barger backs off.. Using a "barger boyou (tm)" is a "very good thing(tm)"!

Another common situation is the one where a windward boat is about to be pushed over the starting line by a leeward boat. Leeward hails "up up up" while the windward boat replies "Hey, you are pushing me over" and stays put.
My personal favorite is the ones who still hail "mast abeam- no luffing rights"

Or you may encounter the one (as I did) where you shout "up, up up!" and your opponent responds with "F**k off!"

exactly. spread people out oon the line.

Me too

to which the answer is - "Your problem, not mine"

opponent responds with "F**k off!"

There would be a very serious problem, right then, right there, in front of God and everbody!

Not so, according to the rules interpretation provided by the answer to quiz one at Halsey Quiz.

I knew Mike Fahle was right on this, and I am glad somebody finally confirmed it.

[quoteIf you start at the end of the line, would you recommend a inmediate tack to port and once you have gained enough distance tack to starboard. By this time the fleet can be below you on a port tack and YOU have ROW. I have been debating about this, but I have not had a chance to do it yet.

Is this do-able? recomended for a low line start?

Well, sorry to be contrary, but I think you've got the tail wagging the dog. There is no single preferred starting tactic. Instead of following a predefined strategy, look at the course and decide where you want to be after the start. Then come up with a plan that puts you there. For example, if there is more wind on the left side of the course, I'll try to start on starboard tack at the pin, so I can reach the breeze faster. If the wind is better on the right, I may start at the committee boat end so I'll be able to tack away early. If the course or line are significantly port favored, or if starting in a port oscillation, I may try to start on port tack and hope to cross the fleet. If things are even all around, then I'll just try to start in clear air, at speed, at the gun.

Define your strategy for the race first, and that will determine how you should start.

Regards,
Eric