Hobie 16 (?) for $750 - Worth it as a project boat?

Hey @zigzag that is quite a write-up for a $750 boat and first post!

If you want to PM me the link to the pictures you were trying to post I'll take a look and add it.

Based on your description, maybe find a more complete boat. While solid hulls and a working trailer is a positive, and fiberglass can always be repaired with enough effort and expertise, the missing sails and lines are going to cost quite a bit. On the other hand you would then have a solid boat with brand new sails.

Where are you located? East or West coast? We might be able to hook you up with a local to take a second look.

@damon-linkous ah bummer, I was afraid the link wouldn't go though. I haven't posted here enough to post pictures directly either, but thanks for the offer, I'll DM you the link!

I did find a new mainsail for sale through Intensity sails for $250, a batten set from West Coast Sailing for $380, and someone is selling a jib locally for $250. Adding in a line kit for $230 that all puts me all in at ~$1900 with the price of this boat.

I'd definitely rather get a ready-to-sail boat for that price, but so far I've been looking for a couple weeks within +-300mi from the Bay Area, CA, and all the turnkey boats I've found are listed for $4k+ (out of my budget.) It's very possible I just haven't waited long enough to find the bottom of the market though.

So yeah, Bay Area (The boat is in Novato, CA.) If you know any experienced locals who would be down to check it out with me I'd happily buy them a beer and take 'em out for a sail once I've fixed it up!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bJ7P3FRMqRjiZUVs8

@zigzag I've added your photo link to your last post. After this you should be able to add links and attach images no problem.

@damon-linkous thank you! Feels great to be a full member 😄

I would offer the seller $400 or less. It's obvious that the seller just wants the boat off his property, and might not understand the very-low value of a mistreated boat such as it is. If the seller refuses, then provide him with your contact info.... he will likely see the light by the very few people (likely no-one else) who would want that boat for the asking price,  and call you eventually.

It's hard to tell if the chainplate gelcoat cracks are just that, or deeper. I would take a guess that it's merely the gelcoat that has cracked because it's obviously been sitting out in the hot sun, year after year, and gelcoat does become brittle and shrinks with years of sun exposure.

The hull keels look pretty rough, but those are a reasonably 'quick' fix if you have some skill with fiberglass and epoxy or polyester resins. I would always use West Systems epoxy since you CAN gelcoat over that brand's epoxy without problems if the amine blush is cleaned off well and the epoxy is fully cured. 

You can order fiberglass cut-offs (not full rolls) at much reduced prices from the bigger fiberglass suppliers. Gelcoating is pretty easy itself (roll and tip, or just roll), it's the sanding and buffing that may take a little bit of elbow grease. Long-board sanding is your best friend and fun. Fabricate some very simple boards from 1/2" plywood, of 24"x"4" with two simple 1x1 handles near the ends of the board. Coat the board with a couple coats of varnish to keep the plywood from coming apart when wet-sanding. Get some spray contact adhesive (3M) and a few belt-sanding belts of 24"x4" and cut the belt in half so that you can adhere that belt to the board. 80 grit and 120 grit belts are good, then progress to 200 and 400 grit square wet/dry sandpaper adhered to that board, progressing to around 1200 grit, then buff with a buffing compound. I've found that Home Depot has the best/inexpensive sanding belts of "Diablo" brand (red colored belts) that are absolutely waterproof. Use plenty of water and a bit of Dawn dishwashing soap while wet-sanding the new gelcoat. Those Diablo belts will last almost forever when wetsanding. I've done multiple boats with just one belt on each of my DIY boards. It helps to have half-way decent plywood for making the boards so that they flex just enough and evenly on the compound-curvature surfaces of the hulls. Five or so layers of laminates in the plywood is good, engineered sub-flooring board is also pretty good as long as it is around 3/8". Sometimes 1/4" thick board does a better jobl on tighter, curvy areas of the hulls. Just be sure that you waterproof the longboards with something before wet-sanding, or the boards may not last throughout the whole job. Some of mine have lasted a long time without waterproofing, though, so there's that.

This  will not be a real quick job if you want the boat to look half way decent and be seaworthy (waterproof), and will require some yard- or shop-space to do all the repairs in, as well as some tools, such as a random-orbital sander/buffer, paint rollers and handles (for applying gelcoat), acetone, gelcoat and it's thinners/accelerates, etc.

As far as your $2000 spending limit, You're probably looking at least $400-$500 in gelcoat supplies and consumables and tools if you don't have those already.

I made an idiotic move this past fall in purchasing an F18 that needs a LOT MORE work than I originally thought. I could have saved a little longer, or upped my $$-pain and purchased (or waited for) a better, newer, more sail-ready boat. So now I'm kinda stuck with it and have to spend much time in it's repairs and of course it's enhancements from it's new-state because I want to race it. Kinda kicking myself a little bit. But that's ok. She'll be near as or better than new when I'm done with her.   I've had a lot of prior experience in boat work, from kayaks and small beach-cats to ocean-going racing yachts, so there's no real guess-work on the process. I just feel pretty silly for not identifying most everything before purchasing her. Doh!

Not trying to dissuade you or anything like that! I merely believe that this  boat that you've shown us is not worth what the seller is asking.... not by a long-shot.

Also, you should consider the price of all-new standing rigging, especially if the boat was sailed in salt water.

Hopefully the rudders are not cracking/delaminating along their glued seam. Hobie rudders/dagger boards have a reputation for coming apart along that assembly-seam sometimes.

In regards to sanding the new and old gelcoat... resist the temptation to do what all the YT vids indicate, and that is using a power sander of some sort (DA sander, etc). Using a DA sander for the primary sanding tasks will result in a wavy-looking gelcoat finish. Yes, using a DA sander for grits greater than 200 is ok if you're careful, but for the rougher job of smoothing out the freshly-rolled gelcoat, a DIY longboard or two will give you professional results, and the exercise involved is good for ya too. ALWAYS wet-sand. Sandpaper lasts much much longer when wetsanding, as long as it's waterproof.

I'm gonna give some brief comments for starters.  Fire back with specific questions.  Also, all the detailed info you need can be found searching the forums and support pages at hobie.com.  

Definitely a H16. Definitely a comp-tip mast (big plus value-wise).  While you never know what parts have been changed out, the straight tiller tubes (plus), rake adjustable upper rudder castings (big plus), comp-tip etc. are correct for ~'88 vintage.  Maybe research those CA registration numbers for more verification?

Hobie 20 tiller/crossbar connector hardware has been added...huge, expensive plus!  Those old rudder blades are lexan....don't have to worry about 'em splitting at the seam, but they may break in two at the waterline when heavily loaded.  Hulls have been painted...undesirable in that paint may be hiding other issues.  Looks like trapeze wires are missing?

Gelcoat stress cracks at pylon, shroud connectors, etc. are common on old H16s....I wouldn't worry about those.  For the keels and other dings, any exposed glass fibers should be fixed and the boat should be bubble tested for leaks.  Deck-to-hull joint/seam, gudgeons, and drain plug housings are typical leak spots on old H16s.  The fiberglass is very thick at the keels...no foam core/laminate there.  Those keels have been patched with marine tex or such...I'd definitely sand 'em smoother.  If you want/need to go all out, search Hobie pages and Hobie Hotlines for "bottom job."

Comment on standing rigging above is legit safety issue.  Salty Dog Marine (Ebay store) has quality rigging cheaper than Hobie, et. al.  Make sure to order for your year (range) and specify whether you have standard or Aussie jib halyard system.  (Hard to tell from pics, but pretty sure this boat is standard.)  Recommend you specify that forestay be uncoated.

Check trailer wheel bearings for heat before going too far (and do it often).  Repack/replace as necessary.  Most line packages are crap.  Use the Hobie line guide and order only what you need individually.  Decent used sails are pretty easy to find.

I know that there are at least a few Mission Bay area catsailors.  Check with your local Hobie fleet rep: Hobie Fleets – Hobie Class Association of North America

This boat's rudder system, mast, and trailer alone are worth $1,000 easy on the used market...prolly even more in CA.  (I'd snatch it up just for those if it were close by.)  That said, if you are willing to wait, you should be able to find a similarly aged but turnkey H16 for $2K.  Up to you whether you want to put in the effort/funds to fix this one up.  If you do buy it, I'd recommend that you spend zero time/effort/cash on cosmetics.  Make it safe and sail it until it breaks, then upgrade if you're into it.  Either way, you'll have some valuable spare parts.

Hope this helps.

The rudders are actually fiberglass (not lexan).  The giveway is the tan seam running down the centerline of the blade.  I actually like those blades a lot for recreational sailing because they tend to have nice handling, are quite stiff, and are more durable than EPO’s.   The white gelcoat finish doesn’t get fried in the sunlight.   The only downside is they tend to be a bit heavy.  

Tiller system does not look to me to be the Hobie 20 connectors.   Those look like an older ball and socket system, I believe they were called the TLC system by Kisme.  It was a nice upgrade at the time.   

I suspect this boat was likely raced at some point back in the 80’s.   I would check the mainsheet system to see if there are Harken 6:1 low-profile blocks.   

All that being said, the hulls look a bit rough and I would personally not buy a boat whose hulls have been painted.   Keep in mind you’re looking at a 40+ year old Hobie.  

sm

As is usually the case, dogboy is correct, and I should have held back on things that aren't very clear in the pics.  Probably should have stated that my opinions are based on just what's in the pics as well.  A closer inspection/testing is needed to further evaluate.

Posted by: @dogboy

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The rudders are actually fiberglass (not lexan).  The giveway is the tan seam running down the centerline of the blade.  I actually like those blades a lot for recreational sailing because they tend to have nice handling, are quite stiff, and are more durable than EPO’s.   The white gelcoat finish doesn’t get fried in the sunlight.   The only downside is they tend to be a bit heavy.  

Yep, I really liked the fiberglass rudders on my '98 H16...another big plus on this boat's value in my opinion.

Posted by: @dogboy

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Tiller system does not look to me to be the Hobie 20 connectors.   Those look like an older ball and socket system, I believe they were called the TLC system by Kisme.  It was a nice upgrade at the time.  

Looking more closely, the hardware on the tillers does appear to be old stock...hard to tell on the crossbar.  I was not aware of the Kisme connectors.

Posted by: @dogboy

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All that being said, the hulls look a bit rough and I would personally not buy a boat whose hulls have been painted.

The condition of the hulls is indeed paramount for a fixer-upper project, and this has little chance of success if they are not reasonably sound.  While I'd still contend that (with the value of the fiberglass rudders in place of H20 tiller connectors) the parts alone are worth $1K (asking price is reasonable), it may not be worth the effort to fix up...even if the hulls are decent.

Good luck, Zigzag...let us know how it goes!

If you want something to have a hobby fixing up and occasionally sailing, it could end up as a decent deal. Keep in mind, it is 40 +/- years old and it will have constant issues. I have a 50 +/- year old Tornado that I still race and a 35 year old modified Prindle 18-2. You'll find that acquiring old parts will become a scavenger hunt. With all older boats, there will be a wind limit you are comfortable sailing it in and you won't know it until you find it... 

It really depends on what you are wanting to do with it... At the end of the day, you'll have x dollars invested... it's just do you invest upfront or over time? Have you looked at the condition of boats in the $2k range? 

What's the latest on this?  I don't have significant H16 experience i.e. never owned one (had an 18 for a decade), so I'd trust the specifics from the various respondents.  My initial thought was "that's a lot for a boat w/o sails", but that may just reflect my lack of knowledge of that market.  If it looks like you can bring it in - with sails - under budget, then count on still spending another grand on it (and the trailer) as you get to know it and wring out the bugs.

I will, though, add huge props for the KISME TLCs, if that's what they are (I can't tell from the photos).  I love those things - I bought a set from Bill Frye (the guy who ran KISME) 40+ years ago after I upgraded the Mystere 17 with H18 rudders, and they're one of my all-time favourite boat parts.  I still have them, and they're still zero-slop.  When Bill retired he sold the KISME works to Murrays, so when I wanted to buy another set (for the H18, I think) I called them up because I couldn't see them in the catalog.  They told me they never made any, and had scrapped the tooling (i.e. injection molds and whatever else).  I was PISSED.

I'm going to add here the story of my buying the TLCs from Bill (he's where I got my first set of Oxen blocks and various other early bits).  He advertised them as "guaranteed forever - you break it, I replace it".  When I was installing mine, I overtorqued one and snapped off the threaded stud from the ball.  So I called him back up, sheepishly explained that I was an idiot, and that I'd like him to ship me a replacement on my credit card.  He said "Nope, not how I do things.  I don't care how it broke.  It broke, so I'm sending you a replacement, no charge".  Now that's how to do business.

Which is a long way of saying that if you get the boat, and it ever gets parted out, I WANT THOSE TLCs!