Has anyone seen both in person? How identical/similar/different are the boats from these manufacturers?
Never heard of Dynautics.
They're in Holland (Google Dynautic to find their site, then click on the English language link). Their hulls look a bit different from those on the Vectorworks version. The beams/tramp sit on a recessed section of hull relative to the section forward of the front beam. Was curious about the effect of this, and any other differences in the designs.
Really a question for the Euro folks (Wouter, etc.) as I doubt any Dynautic boats have made it to the US, but I know the opposite is not the case.
Phill, what is your reply to this ?
Wouter
Stuart,
I've not seen both boats either but they are of the same design, there may be some cosmetic differences.
Your best bet would be to contact each builder and get specific information on the fine details.
Regards,
Phill
Was Victorworks the ones having issues with rudder mechanism? What's Dynautic using? <img src=
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Vectorworks now offer two options for the rudder mechanisms: a custom rope-operated system, or the rod system from Catamaranparts (standard on European Vectorworks Blades).
As far as I can tell users of boths systems are very happy with them, and the choice comes down to personal preference. Vectorworks have admitted that the original rudder were not up to scratch, and they no longer use that supplier. It's probably about time to stop dragging up this historical point.
As for Dynautic - I don't know what they're using, but from the photos it looks like a rod system with carbon stocks. Perhaps AHPC?
Paul
The big difference is that the Dynautic boats are made from ply, whereas Vectorworks are fibreglass.
Paul
It must be carbon-ply then.. <img src=
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Ref: http:/
There is a slideshow running to the left, and it looks a lot like a carbon sandwich building process.
Interesting. I'm pretty certain that the red/orange boat on their website is ply, and this is certainly funny looking carbon:
http:/
But you're right: it seems that they are producing carbon/epoxy boats.
Paul
They probably did a ply boat for testing, and a plug, before they invested time and money on production moulds.
I have had no builder related problems with the Vectorworks system. However, I have two distinct operator problems! <img src=
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/> Launching in surf; and kicking the lock open while sailing.
I think the Dynautics ruddersystem may be easier for ME to operate. If it isn't too costly, I will convert.
IMO, this is one of the nice things about our class, i.e. the freedom to customize according to personal sailing habits. If I understand correctly, SMOD doesn't permit this.
Hi there,
as Dynautic's first customer for the Blade i may add some comments here:
The orange Blade is made of plywood, i had a test sail on it. Like many others who tried the Blade i was very impressed about the Cat and placed my order.
First Dynautic intended to make the hulls in plywood carbon, for maximum stiffness and dent resistance. This was the main difference at that time to the other builder, Vectorworks.
But as there was no experience with this composite structure, Phill the Blade designer convinced Dynautic to build the first hulls with foam core for reliability reasons.
Now a high-density foam core is used, with pre preg carbon layers. Denting is also no issue, i saw someone hammering on the composite with no effect on the surface.
For the rudders there are some options now. The orange plywood Blade had a AHPC rudder system, which pros and cons are well known.
I decided for another one, made by a local supplier to me, shake design in Hamburg/Germany. Supports regional business, and spare parts mustn't shipped around halve the earth to me. On their website you can see an A-Cat rudder, similar to the F16 system which is now in design process. The head will be stronger with the tiller fixed to both sides of the rudderblade. The rudder will get a 20% larger surface compared to A-Cat and is then also used for F18ht. The stern at the Blade is higher with more volume compared to A-Cat or F18, so we chose the F18ht type that spinout problems shouldn't occur with this setup.
see:
Now the moulds for the rudder are 3D-modelled and then CNC milled. At beginning of march my rudders will be available, hopefully together with the gray carbon Blade you can see on the Dynautic website.
links:
www.dynautic.com
www.shakedesign.de/rudder.htm
Holger
I would use the Nacra rudder system, that is also used on the Eagle cats, this system is perfect (for me)
not to say that other rudder systems are bad!
It most definately did NOT have the AHPC rudders. Those would have worked, is that other type, Robi named the supplier in his post earlier.
Looking forward to seeing you and your boat at Zandvoort Holger.
Wouter
Indeed i have to correct this, the rudders on the orange Blade were made by a former worker at AHPC who started for himself. But regardless who makes the rod system, i don't like it for myself.
The system at my former Nacra500 worked always fine, but for a F16 it is a bit overdimensioned and heavy. Let's see how the new System behaves, i'll keep you informed...
Holger
See attachment for the nacra rudders system on an Eagle
and more here
http:/
Some Differences between Vectorworks and Dynautic Blades.
Vinylester vs Epoxy
Glass vs Carbon
Round keel vs flat keel
screws vs nuts n bolts
x bulkheads vs more bulkheads
x stringers vs more stringers
No thanks vs YES please!
screws vs nuts n bolts
x bulkheads vs more bulkheads
x stringers vs more stringers
This could be informative, if you weren’t being so vague, perhaps you’d care to elaborate? <img src=
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Well, we'll see both builds next to one another at the Zandvoort event in 5 months time so we can indeed directly compare the two.
Mirjam, are you coming ?
Wouter
Well, we'll see both builds next to one another at the Zandvoort event in 5 months time so we can indeed directly compare the two.
Mirjam, are you coming ?
Wouter
No experience sailing on the North-sea and no time, perhaps my father will be there.
Nothing vaque about it. Just a couple of cosmetic differences.
Is
No thanks vs YES please!
a cosmetic deference or are you expressing an opinion based on something? <img src=
alt=
/>
Quote:???
1. screws vs nuts n bolts
x bulkheads vs more bulkheads
x stringers vs more stringers
Mirjam,
If have to make a comment on this but you are saying on point 1 screws vs nuts and bolts but you did not see the European style VWM Blade yet i think.
About the bulkheads and stringers it looks to me that you know how the VWM hulls are build but before you saying this please be carefull with that because you obviously don't know how they are build.
It is not difficult to have comments on something but if you do there must be a good foundation for it, i personally think.
Regards,
Hans
The proof is in the pudding. Until some one sails a Dynautic against a Vectorworks, it's all opinion.
Vectorworks molds were shaped by a 5 axis CNC router, were the Dynautic molds?
Regards,
Bob
Just guessing but maybe that would explain the
Round keel vs flat keel
approach… <img src=
alt=
/>
If the boats are within a few percent in speed, it will be the best skipper that wins. If you want people to think your boat is the best, don't worry too much about building it the best, just make sure you put the best skippers on it.
Lets face it, a skipper looking to enter the F16 class with a view to winning is most likely to buy whatever boat is winning the most regatta's. They won't be looking to see which boat has the most bulkheads and could care less if the mold was made from a plywood plug or a milled foam plug.
Winners in every area of life know that winning is in the details. If one could get a mathematically accurate hull from a plug with extreme accuracy in symmetry, and a true representation of the designers concept, I would say all things being equal, a
winner would seek out such an advantage. While your
average" sailor would blow it off as unimportant. Yes top sailors could win most races on a door, broom stick and sheet for a sail...but when top competitors are competing against each other they look for every advantage.
Regards,
Bob