F16 Altered Vs F18 Capricorns

Gary,

Were you trapezing down wind in the hight wind range ?

Gary ,

I've read this report three times now and am excited for you (glad as well that Altered will be on the other side of the world a safe distance from our U.S., solo F16's) ; you're singlehandedly (pun intended), representing the potential of the class...Couple questions if you've a moment :

1. In the lighter air the F18's i've sailed against inch away
from my solo F16 to weather.The Taipan and I, together, weigh under 380lbs., but we're just under canvased and underpowered with the hull friction advantage of the F16 not compensation enough.Do you notice the other solo F16's (Taipans specifically), going as well as youself against the F18's ? If not, to what do you attribute your speed advantage ? Also, I've had trouble keeping pace with the longer boats when the conditions get choppy.How are you able to sail so fast to weather in the slop?
2. My F16 reaches downhill Waaaaay faster sailed from the wire and jibing at angles 10 or 20 degree's ABOVE the Tiger F18's. I'm not sure about much , but I am certain that my Taipan gets downhill faster if I jibe later than the longer boats and sail hotter angles. As the conditions get bumpier this becomes MORE true (though my flight into the main in Long Beach last month finds me a little skeeered of late...);additionally, from the wire is the only way to keep the boat from nosediving in big slop...How come you're keeping pace w/ probably the fastest F18 off the wind (the Capricorn), while sailing so deep? Does the height of the kite pole make a difference (attached), are you sailing w/ a really tight kite luff ?
3. Last question (vital for context; don't be bashful). On a scale of 1-5 with 5 being Glen Ashby and 1 being the guy who holed the other Capricorn in your race, how would you rate yourself ability wise.

Thanks a Million!

Paul Kilkenny

Gary

make yourself some T-foil rudders, and you won't need to flap the kite, shouldn't be to dificult compared to what you've already done with the boat, email me if you want some advice, or if you want to buy a set.

All,

Had an opportunity to sail the Blade this weekend in rough off shore conditions, and head up against a variety of bigger boats sailed by the top dogs in this area. This was a distance race from Delray beach to palm beach inlet and back. It started out light and building to solid double trap beat for most of the first leg. The boat went very well to weather even in the very rough off shore conditions. As long as we were powered up, we had no problem in the big chop even though I know the ride would have been smoother with the extra 4 foot of bow everyone else was using. We also had to work twice as hard going in and out, back and forth to keep it driving, but that is just a function of the shorter length hull. 4-6 foot rollers with big wind chop, and we never had an issue with waves smashing the cross bars. The flat hull bottms were a little loud, but no worse than the I 20. While the wind stayed for most of the first leg, we were continually trading possitions and crossing with the top I20 teams. When the wind lulled, there was no way we could compete with the huge amount of canvas they are carrying. We lost touch with the top teams at the mark due to staying out too long and having to tack into a 5 knot out going tide in no wind. When it came back up, it was a very gust jib reach back to the finish. We raced the leg back right with a couple of 6.0, I20, H20, and the Acat. Same thing applied. We had boat speed equal with any of them when the wind piped up. In the lulls, the bigger boats would creep ahead.

This formula is for sure the giant killer. Given the current numbers (which will most likely be going down soon) it should easily correct out well, and from our experience to date, if there is enough wind to be fully powered up, it will run damn near head to head with any of the other production boats out there.

Trying to get to Gulfport next weekend, and try it Uni for the first time. I have never raced uni before, so it sould be very interesting.

Matt

Thanks for the story Matt.

I wont be able to make the Gulfport. not willing to get into a race on a boat I have never sailed, and even less a race that will require to race solo. Not my cup of tea just yet.

Go kill em all Matt!

http://1design.net/results/05_delray.htm

I put the results in an excel sheet and 've done the usual grouping together of fleets and split-out between corrected times and elapsed times.

I assume that all the fleet started together and raced the same course.

Wouter

That is a good point actually; T-foils on altered.

I think Altered may suffer a little bit from lack of bow volume as it is an modified A-cat platform. But the T-foil rudders would be a very good remedy.

Wouter

Paul,

You still got a standard Taipan 4.9 mainsail ?

Part of the compensation that was designed into the F16 class rules was the F16 mainsail.

Loose the flap on the bottom as well; it serves no effective purpose. Use this area to blow up the head and when done right you will improve its gust response sufficiently to get back up to level.

It is not so much that the F16 mainsail has a higher top speed it is just that with each change in windspeed it reacts quicker and wins back halve a boat length with each change.

Chop ?

I didn't do too much singlehanding in severe chop but when singlehanding I felt like the boat did better at a small bow down attitude; by getting the sterns out. It felt like it just punched through horizontally instead of lifting the bow a little with each wave. The main part of the wave dropped away before coming near to the mainbeam.

In the pictures of you sailing it always appears to me that you are rather far back on the boat with the bows riding a little high. I have a feeling that your pointing will improve as well by dipping the bow in just a little. With luck you keep your speed up and win enough height to get level with the F18's again.

Paul you wrote "How come you're keeping pace w/ probably the fastest F18 off the wind (the Capricorn)"; actually the capricorn is getting more and more renowed for its upwind prowes. It is the fact that Altered stayed so close in arguably strong winds that gets me.

With respect of Gary's sailing skill I can tell you that some Aussie F16 sailors are getting nervous about meeting Gary at the Port Kembla long course race weekend on 2 and 3 april. His reputation is spreading over the land.

Wouter

Wouter

Wouter,

Thank you,i'll exam this.

Paul

Hi PK,

I will answer as best I can.

1. My Mainsail is larger especialy in the head than Taipan main, this should give me more power although I think more is possible. Total power to weight ratio one up F16 even with Taipan main should be better than F18 so should see you at least competitive. Taipan cat rigs started 5 min. behind at this reggatta so it was hard to judge thier upwind speed in comparison to Greg's Capricorn but when I and other Capricorn stuffed up in light winds the front boats got closer than 5 minutes almost passing us in one race.

Maybe look at how high you are pointing, it is very easy to point to high one up. How tight your mainsail leach is, try to keep head open twisted a little even in light stuff.

Sailing fast to windward in chop in my opinion is all about powering up and keeping speed up. I lift windward hull, then if it starts to drop bear away to keep it up and use that speed to maintain height, heading back up until hull drops again. Generaly I was pointing higher than Capricorns and Taipan sloops, so travelling a bit slower but shorter distance.

2.Downwind I was sitting on side as I have found this the most consistant. Trapping is certainly faster don't know about keeping the bow up though, I have come to grief nose diving from trap, as you know it is realy hard to keep control one up in gusty conditions from trap. I run heaps deeper than F18's giving me a competitive V.M.G. The luff of my kite is not tight, it is fuller than the kite Greg was using on Capricorn. In fact I feel this may be part of my problem in heavy winds I am overpowering way before F18's.

3. Hardest question of all. I guess a 3. Grew up sailing lakes so light wind doesn't bother me. Love the challenge and aggression of sailing in strong winds don't like to let the conditions beat me. Most of all I never think that the boat I am sailing isn't capable of beating other boats, it's just up to the nut on the tiller. The day I don't make a mistake is the day the boat is at fault. It will never happen!!

Regards Gary.

Hi John,

T foils are interesting would probably try and make my own. Do you think they put much extra force on fittings. I guess they must if they put enough force on to stop bow going down. This may cause some trouble for Altered as fittings are packed out of transom as cutting off 9" of transom meant tillers would be to short if rudders mounted straight onto transom. Not rushing to make changes at moment though looking forward to being passed by another F16.

Regards Gary.

Hi Robi,

I like your thinking, if you remember I didn't rush to Forster Wildcat Reggatta because Altered wasn't sorted. One step at a time especialy one up you need to have it sorted.

Regards Gary.

Hi Matt,

Top result the more I sail my boat the more I wish it was a Blade in strong winds. The Hobie 20 that beat you home seems to have done very well also, did it have a spinnaker.

Totaly agree F16 is a giant killer, wait until you sail it one up if it is moderate wind you will be amazed. Mind you it is very physicaly demanding especialy short course.

Regards Gary.

Here a pic showing Gary's mainsail

Wouter

This particular hobie 20 did not have a spinnaker, but it was sailed by John McKnight. Our CABB commodore, he can pack a serious punch. He is an awesome sailor.

Gary

You will get up to about 50kgs of downforce from each foil, obviously you will have to work out whether the transom fittings will take it, but you could reduce the size, even if you halved it it would be the equivelent of having someone else on the back of the boat, but they would only be there when you need them.;

regards

The way the race reports read gives me the impression that the race was mainly an upwind to reaching race. Not much spi-sailing apparently. The Hobie 20 with its large overlapping jib (6 sq. mtr.) will be a good reaching boat. That in addition to the capable crew that was on it.

Wouter

Ya, the first leg was all to weather. We were out quite a way and had to beat back in against the current when the wind died, so lost touch with the front runners. As we drifted around the mark, we tried to run the spin, but for the 10 min it was up, we only went about 200 yards, before the wind came back and provided us a very gusty jib reach back to the finish. We were right ina pack of about 8 boats, the A-cat, H20 and a couple of 6.0 and I20s. Over the course of the 20 miles we lost very little time to anyone, and made ground on the others. In the gusts we were able to make equal time and or gain on everyone. In the lulls, the guys with more sail slowly pulled away. One of the I20s stuffed it right in front of us in 1 particularly big gust. One thing about the boat that was particularly noticable, due to the high volume hulls and the light weight, is that we accelerated much faster than the big boats. It is a lot of work to keep in ballance due to the short hulls (we were extreamly tired at the end of the day)but the responsiveness of this dsign makes it really fun to sail, and having moved up from a H16, it was a blast to be right in the mix instead of hoping I was close enough to correct out OK.

It is not the size that matters, but how you use it.

M

Is that going to be the advertising slogan for the Blade?

Hey Gary, go easy on the advise for Paul--otherwise he might start smoking me...

Hiya Doc !

Hmmm , so far in 2005 (Four Regattas), its been a crash and break 'fest. I'm bleeding confidence like a carotid wound...
New trailer setup is cool though (pic)

PK

Nice BIG box--and I like the hole for the pole--I might have to copy that idea.

I like the mast diagonal across the shed, I had that setup for a while till I made a hole in the back of the shed behind the boat for the mast to go straight out the back, got sick of hitting my head on the mast, was damaging mast..
Darryn
Mosquito 1704
South Australia

Nice picture of your trailer, but what are the wooden pieces under the tramp, parallel to the hulls? And it looks like the metal supports are exposed towards the hulls - don't the hulls get scratched?

I've got some good photos of my taipan trailer which has some nifty features and which Paul adopted some ideas. I have beams made of Trex (plastic/wood board used from decks) that is very slippery, so the boat just slides right on--very easy to do alone--I got the idea from Phil Brander's web site. Let me know if you want photos.

I would like to see photos Eric.

and if posible, some close ups of the decals.

I need to modify my trailer, so all the ideas will be welcomeed.

Robi,

I emailed you the trailer photos. I haven't taken any photos of the decals--I will, though.

Eric