F16 info for light weight crew

Your weight is fine. I have found that most of the F16 guys tend to sail the boats too heavy with crew weight (BUT that is just my view). If I was back sailing F16 I would be looking at similar total crew weight or slightly less (the local Asian girls aren't too big to start with). But many of the new designs are designed around the heftier crew weight anyway.

Never had a problem righting the boat, but a lot of that is down to technique and learning correctly to begin with. Can right a Taipan 4.9 by myself and I am 70kg in any wind condition. Just a case of acting quickly to get the downhaul off, traveller down, mainsheet off and getting the boat pointing into the wind by standing on the bow. Once this is done, then try to right.

As for max wind speed, that is down to boat handling and not necessarily weight. I was one of the lighter crews in the Taipans, but performed better the windier it got. Just a case of getting out there and practising/training. Can't quote this enough. And when you get back to the beach, talk to the other sailors who were handling the conditions better than you were. Most people are generally helpful.

But for dealer/price lists, assuming you are in the US as you are using the old school lbs for weights. Send a PM to

Matt M

on this forum. He makes the Blades.

Where are you located? The USA? If so, for buying a new boat, parts, prices, warranties etc. you should contact Vectorworks Sail at: http://www.vectorworkssail.com/contact.html

Sails are supplied by several sailmakers, this is a formula class, so you can get pretty much what you want there within the max measurements. If you sail in an area with dominantly strong winds, you should talk with your sailmaker of choice and ask for second opinions here. You would need to say something about where you sail, the dominant conditions sea/wind and your ambitions. In the US, Glaser sails have done some good work: http://glasersails.com/

Your combined weight sounds like a good match to the boat for me.

If you want to get your sails from your own sail maker he will need the bending specs from the spar you are using, so try to get them, or measure them yourself by the advise of the sailmaker how to do it.

Alot of F16 parts are commonly available from 3rd parties. Basically all the blocks, sails, lines and general fittings like bolts etc. F16's are not a One-Design class where everything MUST be bought from the builder itself. The builders do indeed sell all these things, but if you got a good local chandlery about then there is no reason to not go there.

I think that that is one cause to the result the F16 builders and class don't spend much effort on price-listings and replacement part listings. But it also just grew that way. The F16 class at this time seems to be a group that often communicates directly with other people and parties in the class and that works out fine.

Best advice is what other gave givin, just contact the builder and ask. With the current US$ exchange rate swinging all about any price quote that isn't given out very recently is undependable anyway.

2- I am 140 lbs , my crew is 120 lbs. Is it enough to safely sail a F16 in all conditions ? and what max wind would be recommended for such light weight team ?

260 lbs combined = 117.78 kg

I partly agree with the others here. Indeed is dependent on the regular conditions you will be sailing in. However at 260 lbs you'll be at the light end of the scales. Typical competitive (racing) weight range is 125 kg - 155 kg = 275 - 435 lbs with crews between 135-140 kg (295-310 lbs) being regarded as pretty content. However the F16's are regarded by many to have a very flat dependency on crew weight. There is alot to do on the boat (spinnaker etc) and trim is extremely important. This pulls the focus away from being at the correct weight and puts it back on developping your sailing skills and honing your manouvres till you can execute them perfectly.

Afterall we are finding that doublehanded F16's and singlehanded F16's can race first across the line very well despite the obvious large gap in crew weights. Removal of the jib for the singlehanders does indeed help alot in this case but still ...

I personally think that crews above 110 kg should be able to sail the F16 well. But I also believe these crews really should have the rig adjusted to their weight by a respected sailmaker. At those crew weights you'll want flatter sails. The F16 class rules allow that of course and you should make use of that. When sailing with these sails that are optimized for you I think you be pretty happy with how the boat sails (performance) and behaves.

I don't think there is a max windspeed that is different for you at 260 lbs then most other crews. You just need to learn how to depower the rig properly. We singlehanders have gone out in 25 knots of wind and race (for example last year F16 global challenge). I'm not even near to 117 kg myself. I put 90 kg on the scales but that is still lacking 27 kg relative to you guys. I'm not using a specially optimized singlehander sail, I just use my 2-up mainsail that is cut for 150 kg crew weights. Okay, I very much would like to have a special 1-up mainsail like the current F16 world champ or Mark Pressdee recent purchase but I can manage with my old mainsail just fine. Especially when I'm sailing recreationally.

3- Given our weight, is it possible/recommended to use smaller sails, for 1 up and 2 up ? again I can't find any part list on the web for sails.

Yes, as long as you don't cross any of the max. limits set out in the class rules you can do whatever you want. Personally I wouldn't go for smaller sails, but just flatter sails. Like the others write. Make a report on all factors like your crew make-up and sailin conditions and discuss with a respected sailmaker what type of cut you suit of sails will have. Keep the normal size of the sails and just have the sailmaker adjust the cut of the sails. This seems to work really well for specialized 2-up and 1-up sails and should for the same reasons work just as well for yout 260 lbs sails.

Contact Joanna Lienti or Lynn Olsen, I think there are sailing (and winning many races) at 275 lbs.

You can e-mail them at : jdlquilts(AT)hotmail.com

Wouter

Westcat,
Where are you located? That would help in directing you to find boats for sale or try out. Crew weight is fine! I have sailed against another F16 w/ 1-up weight of 140lbs in very windy conditions--no problem but does take skill. Smaller sails okay per the rules, but you won't need them--F16 rig is so tunable you should be able to depower when needed.

I am located in San Jose, CA.

Can you define

very windy conditions

?

30 knots in Santa Cruz. Photo attached from before the wind got extreme.

We went with the F16 for two reasons..My skipper only had to own one boat (can sail single or double) and the there is NO minimum crew weight. We have been as light as light as 255 and right now weight 274, but usually 260-265 is our range. One big perk too is the boat is light weight for moving around the beach and getting off the trailer. <img src=

alt=

/> Matt and Gina also sail at 265 so there are plenty of us light weights. The boat and class are great!!!!! We are very glad we got one.

Joana,

Best of luck at the upcomming Alter Cup final !

Wouter

Thank you. I am looking forward to it!

So what is the typical wind in which you like to sail your F16 ? 15 knots ? 20 knots ? 25 knots ?
And is there max wind speed after which you don't use your spinnaker anymore ?

For somebody whit the sea as profession, that doesn’t look 30 knots at least not on the photo. The sea surface looks different at 30 knots.
And a small thing but important, it’s no good to speak about being out in +25 knots on a forum where people whit very different skills are reading the posts. There is no difference what craft you are sailing, when the wind gets up to 30 knots things change and everything gets more difficult. So at least my point of vu is that there is no need to give the Coast Guard more job than they have by announcing to unskilled sailors that it’s safe to take a craft out in 30 knots.

Most people over rate the actual wind strength. How many times have you heard

it was blowing 20 plus knots out there

, but infact the readings were 15knots gusting to 18 knots.

In my opinion 10-12 knots is fantastic sailing for the F16.

12-15 starts getting exciting

15-20 knots gets most skippers to start think about surving the race course

anything over 20 knots and really survival is foremost in most peoples mind.

30 knots is just not fun unless you watching some other fools try and master the conditions.

In Aus, the classes have a wind strength range & generally racing wont occur outside this. 2 - 22knots is the norm.

Spinnakers allways flying downwind unless you have a really steep swell & the waves to close together.(zandvoort?)

Agree with most of that

Not sure about 50-20!

As for kites up; Totally agree; only time mine does not go up is when it's too lumpy to take it down. Or I'm totally knackered!

I believe the rules now state races here are called off if the wind is a constant 25 knots for 3? minutes. (could be 1).. Luckily peak gusts aren't included..

Still remember the days, when racing was only canceled if the rescue boat was getting swamped..

When racing it’s one thing, there are other boats around, but some people go out alone...

Gato is right of course.

The fact that the boat can hold up to 30 knots or more winds doesn't mean that the crew can do so too.

How much wind a crew can handle in strongly dependent on their skills and experience. What they other are saying here is that with sufficient skill and experience the F16 boats allow such a crew to keep sailing into pretty impressive conditions. Many of them have done so multiple times. The design of the boat and the trim/tuning systems are developped and dependable enough to calm the boat down and have it be well behaved. However, the crew must know how to use these systems.

I also agree that many people overestimate windstrengths many will call 15+ winds to be 20-25 knots winds.

Still, the main point is that any reasonable committed crew can work his or her way up to the skill and experience level that allows that crew to sail the F16 boat up to conditions where all sailing pretty much stops. How to get there is your personal learning curve and best advice as ever is to start ease and build up skills gratually.

Wouter

Those here are blessed.. The river is incredable place to sail.. wide and if worst comes to worst you just drift to a shore.. May take a little time at places the river is a few Km wide) but if the boat is unsinkable it drift somewhere..

Offshore, We have gage roads a protected coastal area.. With a chain of Islands & reefs running up the coast for a 100Kms .. When the fleet gets going here I really want to do a Fremantle to Rottnest morning race (generally light following winds at the time..) Then when the big ocean swell jumps the reefs and the doctor arrives, to do a Rotto-Freo return.. 16 miles of huge 3/4 swells and hopefully a decent 20 knot wind on a medium reach is one buzz ride..

edited.....15-20 knots <img src=

alt=

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I'll bet this proverb has a version in every language,

There are old sailors and bold sailors, but there are no old, bold sailors.

Agreed. Looks more like 10 to me, maybe less:

30kts would be white caps breaking and all sorts of spray!

Gina and I weigh in right at the same as you would with your wife. We have raced with no problems in events with recorded wind speed off the committee boat in the upper 20s with gusts comming through in the 30's.

The ability to handle conditions is solely dependant on the skill level of the crew. I know people who really should not be out in winds exceeding 5 mph. When it gets gusty or the seas get steep and short as Marcus said I have difficulty keeping the right side up. I race regularly with people though who excell in those type of conditions. This kind of thing carries acroos all types of cats and is not a particular issue of the F16.

To race the boat is most fun for me in the 12-18 range. Powered up both ways yet not so much that you can concentrate on speed and tactics, not just keeping it upright. As far as

fun

goes, that is often is dependant on who you decide to share the ride with. Gina will race in bigger wind, but will not go out for a sail in anything over about 15. When the wind picks up and we are out on the boat, the fun for everyone stops. I have buddies that go out with me in conditions they would never hold a race in and we have a blast. My boy only likes the boat if we are going fast. He will go out in anything, but I have to hold the throttle back some.

Matt

25 gusting 30

That is the weather the old VJ excels!!

Looks like lots of hard work and fun...

Another one: There are strong wind sailors and there sailors speaking about strong wind.

Much more like it TA;

I've been out in uber winds (OOD said 40kts gusts). When next in the UK, ask someone if they were at that grafham open......

mega gust came thru; almost all of the boats out (about 120) went swimming. So windy that sails were just blowing out..

This is not me; but gives some idea of what it was like, The Hurricane 59 is a 20 foot boat.

Flogging mainsail DOWNWIND

Dive dive dive

My boat blew off the trolley going up the slipway with no sails up. It was very (too) silly.....

Thanks Tornado, this is a nice picture !
So it looks like the F16 performs well in anything from 10 to 20 knots, and while it can be quite a workout, it will not break down in 25 knots.
Most of the picture I had seen so far showed the boat in relatively calm water, so I was concerned it would be too light or too over powered to handle the pacific ocean...

And yes, I know my limits, and I am not too bold right now...

Are these more like it ?

All taken at the F16 global challenge 2007 (Zandvoort) on monday and tuesday. Both days certified average 20 knots winds, gusts to 25 knots. Waves on average about 1.5 mtr = 5 feet. Although waves on the North sea are more like tall chop then waves, we have no swell what so ever. Data taken of the local government measurement post that is 5 km to the north.

Wouter

Does the single handed Blade has a carbon mast?

I will be on the water this weekend and forecast predicts pretty much the same conditions, however we have not the high waves. Today with the T and tomorrow with the Javelin, so I can tell you if I can or cannot handle it. Yet I am optimistic <img src=

alt=

/>

Cheers,

Klaus