Heavier sails

I can only speak to the Hobie 16.  I bought the 1st one in 1979, it was a Goldfinger.  Yellow, gold and blue stripes.  A year later I started racing it with Hobie Fleet 126, Michigan City/Gary, IN.  I learned a lot and then started racing Division 10.  All of the hot shots had white sails.  Supposedly the white sails were cut from the same bolt of sail cloth and more consistent in their shape.  In 1984 I got a new "red stripe" all white.  My results improved.

But it wasn't just the boat.  Lots of practice and reading and applying Eric Twiname's "Start To Win" probably was more important than the boat and sails.

I ask because I just bought a never-used Smyth main and jib for my Prindle 16 ($400).  They are much different in feel than the original sails from the boat, and I have to imagine they're gonna feel different (at least a little bit) out on the water.

-Matt

Posted by: @westmatt

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What is the practical difference between the modern heavier white sails, and the colored sails that came with the older beach cats?

Is there a big difference in handling?

They are much different in feel than the original sails from the boat, 

Could you clarify what you mean by different feel? The original Prindle sails would have been woven Dacron, assembled in horizontal panels. Smyth has done a lot of different kind of sails. The more modern ones might be a Pentex laminate, meaning woven polyester fibers core sandwiched between mylar. 

The laminate sails stretch much less, so they do affect your sail tuning. They respond well to a good downhaul system, where the original sails stretched so much that downhaul didn't really change the shape as much.

If your sails have a square-top then there is even more of a learning curve, when I switched from factory sails to Pentex Square-top it took some experience and adding 8:1 downhaul to dial them in.

Show us a picture of the new sails and someone will recognize what they are exactly, maybe get Randy to tell all. LOL

They're older, but haven't been used. I'd guess they're dacron, but heavier than the originals, definitely. 

Looks like dacron to me (with pinhead main) and a bargain at only 4 boat bucks!  Some generalities based on my experience with Hobie 16 sails...

Not aware of any differences between white vs. colored for stock dacron sails.  Your newer sails could be made of heavier sailcloth, but a well used sail will be less dense just due to loss of resin.  Your older sails are also likely have longer luffs and deeper drafts (more drag; good for power but not speed) due to stretch.

I expect there will be a noticible difference and that you'll have to play with them to dial 'em in for various conditions (wind, crew weight, waves, etc.)  To the extent the stack height of your sheeting blocks can handle it, you might want to rake the mast aft some in order to get center of effort lower and further aft on the newer mainsail (more speed/less power; better upwind performance).  Similarly, you should be able to flatten the newer sails better for more speed (vs. power) when the wind gets up and that is needed.  These adjustments will settle the boat down some but might hurt your downwind performance a little...and light air performance (but who cares abot that!).

I'm betting you'll be able to point better.

Thank you Jerome - that's a great explanation! Boat bucks - haven't heard that before! 

You're very welcome.  In case it wasn't clear, my comments above are based on the assumption that your newer sails are less stretched/blown out, not so much to do with their weight/density.

I've spent some time on the P16. and it's a great boat.  It has a more hull volume and less sail area than the H16, so my comments may not apply on your boat to the extent they do on mine.  These features make the P16 more stable in my experience (which is very nice when the wind gets up).  It feels a little like driving a bus compared to the H16 in lighter air, though! 🙃 

The new sails were bought and then stored for years without ever being used, so hopefully they'll be (relatively) like new. 

There's a 'right' boat for everyone, and the Prindle is that right one for me.  I have to make an effort to get out there, so I really try to make 15 mph my minimum threshold, because anything less than that is less than optimal fun!  Really appreciate you sharing your expertise.

-Matt

I always considered plain white sails as "racing sails", often, a serious cat racer would have white sails because they got new sails much more often than the rest of us. Also, there was the idea that the overall weight of the sail set was less because of the lack of color "paint". 

I think the advantage was mainly due to the sails being much newer than most of the others on the course.

@damon-linkous IMO the advantage is the sailor sailing enough to wear out some sails!

Typically, newer sails will be faster. Randy had invested a lot of time in design so the "assumption" is that Smyth sails will be faster than any factory sails. They usually are. One reason some classes limit sail manufacturers - keep the technology from improving speed. Class rules are in place because there is a faster way to do it. Usually, a lighter weight material will wear out faster than heavier weight material. Not always true because how the sail is designed and constructed plays a huge role in longevity. There is a joke in the industry that the first day you use new sails is the fastest you'll go. I agree with Bacho that time on the water is king. It does take time learning the sails; old and new. I have two sets of sails for the Tornado and they trim way differently. I have to spend about a day before the regatta relearning what each set likes.