How well does this track need to aligned to the mainsheet load? It can be aligned for mid-travel sheeting, but am concerned it would be significantly out-of-line when travelled out when reaching. What does your experience reveal?
I need to replace ancient battered IYE X-track on my vintage Tornado, and was planning on using Harken BB cars, though this Ronstan might be able to take the Tornado loads:
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Thanks,
--Glenn
How well does this track need to aligned to the mainsheet load? It can be aligned for mid-travel sheeting, but am concerned it would be significantly out-of-line when travelled out when reaching. What does your experience reveal?
I need to replace ancient battered IYE X-track on my vintage Tornado, and was planning on using Harken BB cars, though this Ronstan might be able to take the Tornado loads:
http:/
Thanks,
--Glenn
Are you sure 1100lb is enough working load ?
really
costs), but now I think about it, the mast is a lot more expensive for an F16 than a Mozzie, but apart from that I can't see where there would really be much difference in cost.
Surely every fitting is the same, the foils will cost the same, the sails and tramp are very slightly bigger. The hulls are the same construction method - just a bit more of it. There's a bit of gear for the self tacking jib. These are all small increments. I know you need to add fitting out labour but I can't see $8000.
So $1k extra for the mast? $500 for the self tacker, $500 more for the sails, beams will be a fair bit more, another $500? Say $3k more for the components then a Mozzie leaving $5k unaccounted for.
$16500 for the Mozzy was generous too, thats paying full price for everything, many ways to save money on that price, I think I could do it for about $15k.
Darryn
1782
Mozzy
Glenn,
Before I toolk the plunge I worried about that as well, so I initially tried to get the X-track system of RWo but they really didn't want to go through the trouble of shipping me one. I hate the RC tracks and cars and so I was left with only one option, the 19 mm I-track of Ronstan. I took the risk feeling that it would be hard pressed to be as bad as the RC system.
I'm so happy I took that risk, because I have never found a single issue with the 19 mm I-track (as long as you use a 6 wheeled car or larger), this includes angling the mainsheet loads. The car just keeps operating smoothly and with low friction even when run out to the ends.
The car takes these skewed loads by pressing one side of the car (wheels) to the bottom flange of the I-track (that is why it is an I shaped track) while pulling the other side to the top flange. Like this it can withstand very high skewed loads and remain alligned. The flanged themselfs and the wheels are slightly angled relative to eachother so the car aligns itself along the track and doesn'r rub against the wall in the middle. From looking at the pictures it doesn't appear that it will do so but it really does.
I warmly recommend these I-track systems of Ronstan. Phill Brander first tried them with the simple 4 wheeled car but these can break when loaded up fully on a F16 and since then we are using the 6 wheeled cars on the mainsheet system (4 wheel cars on the selftacking jib), these have held up beautifully ever since.
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I'm sure the 4 wheeled car will hold up to the loads on any beach cat designed. Which to get will be your choice. On the F16's it appears we are settling on 8:1 mainsheet purchases.
I seem to remember that Booth measured some 450 kg load on a Tornado mainsheet when fully cranked on. (= 993 lbs)
Good luck,
Wouter
How about 50 to 100 hours of labour at 50 bucks an hour (pension, health care, college found kids, etc) ?
Then of course the investment in the moulds, tooling and premisses need to be recouperated.
Not too mention that some profit has to be made, so slap on an additional 10% to 15% for that.
I think you will find your missing 5000 right there.
But I think we must also hear Marcus when he says this quote was an initial and conservative one.
Wouter
There's a huge, huge difference between building and or modifying a boat that has already been designed and proven by someone else, for youreself, and doing it from scratch for the open market. You really have no idea at all just what it entails unless you've actually done it. None whatsoever.
Wouter, my main reason for suprise with this
rough
price was that in an earlier post you said:
My homebuild was only some 20 % cheaper then the commercially offered F16's
Doing the number I can't see a home built boat really exceeding about 13,000. This was also echoed by Phill.
So I was expecting a production boat to cost about $16000, which is inline with the UK and US Blade's.
I understand.
But as I'm unaware of the cost breakdown of the Aussie Blade I feel inclined to wait a little longer before passing any judgement.
With respect to my own homebuild F16, I've spend some 13.000 Euro's on it (20.635 aus$) incl taxes/shipping of parts etc. That is already more then your quoted $13.000 (US or Aus)
I don't think we'll see any commerically build F16 in Australia for much less then 20.000 Aus$. I think AHPC will be hard pressed to it down at the intended 19.500 Aus$ as well.
Wouter
That's a tough situation for Aussie sailors. Having lived in both Aust. and the US, given relative disposable incomes in each country I would say that it's a lot easier to find USD13k (say) in the US than AUD20k in Aust (though my perception may be biased by my own circumstances which may not be exactly typical). Even based purely on the current exchange rate, an American sailor is well ahead.
Wouter, how much of your 13,000 Euros would you say was (or was not) spent on the hulls? Or to put the question differently, if you start with just a set of hulls, what does it cost beyond that to equip an F16?
Mark.
I doubt whether I could homebuild a F16 cheaper then a commercially offered F16 when I need to buy the hulls of the same commercial builder.
Reason, the cost savings of homebuilding are easily offset by the retail prices a private builder needs to pay for all the gear and fittings.
Commercial builders get large discounts on these items and that is where they get their profit from. The hulls themselfs are labour intensive items and therefor relatively expensive in cost resulting in almost no profit margin on top of them.
Fittings and sails that is where companies can make a profit of beach catamarans. That and replacement parts. The latter because the bill for these is most often taken up by insureance companies, so high retail prices are not a problem.
Wouter
I've been assuming crew can supply 125lbs. For the 9:1 that comes stock on a new T, that's 1125lbs of traveller load, which is a pretty good match.
Wouter's recollection of measured T loads is reassuring.
The alternative a Harken 2736 or 2737, with 1250# SWL, and 2500# breaking strength, compared to 1100/3080 for the Ronstan.
--Glenn
Wouter,
Thanks for the off-center load carrying description. It makes sense.
My experience with Ronstan 19mm track has been in a self-tacking jib traveller. These cars will stick slightly under their own weight when used horizontally with no jib sheet load, such as when tacking in light air. Sometimes we have to hand-move the car to complete tacks in these conditions... but that might be a good thing, as a better rolling car might tend to roll to the track center under its own weight. 🙂
Thanks for the description,
--Glenn
Hi All
The new prices for the Taipan 4.9 are now on the www.ahpc.com.au website. Looks pretty competitive to me.
Regards
Hi Matt,
so is this price for the ones they are getting made in Thailand? Price looks OK as you said. Sloop comes to $20,013. with spinnaker kit.
The latest Formula Catamaran Australia, Blade F16 pricing I have is $21,000. don't have all the details as Marcus was in a rush to get to the F16 Global Challenge, but it is not a bad price for a Aussie built boat with the latest shape Kevlar Hulls. <img src=
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Hi Gary
Yep, these are Thailand boats, I think some have landed, they're said to on time, on weight, and of a excellent finish.
One new owner is pretty excited anyway, but its not me unfortunatly.
Regards
Are you saying that the Taipans are being made in Thailand as well as the Vipers?
Yes that is correct. This was discussed earlier in the thread. The Taipan has never been 'unavailable' the moulds have moved from Australia to Thailand is all. Even when Jim closed Boyer Fibrecraft you could still get one built in Australia. The cost of production is the reason, most of these (AHPC boats) are made in overseas.
Regards
Ok thanks, I guess I must have forgotten. Still it adds to the curiosity about the thinking behind the weight of the Viper.
Hi Mark
Two different markets for two different boats, Taipan One Design, strong following in Australia, which as an option can fit under the F16 rules. The Viper, a purpose built F16, built specifically for that market.
As far as market competition between the two boats, I think it will basically come down to that, you will either want a boat to sail as one design, or without the kite I guess, you'll probably be attracted to the Taipan, but if you a purpose built F16 with kite, the Viper would be more attractive, thats my way of thinking anyway.
Regards